[mojo]

We all know Tesla has been the darling of just about everyone under the sun. There was a piece posted on bloomberg today that argues Toyota, not Tesla is the true revolutionary in the auto industry. From their manufacturing process that turned detroit on its head, to lexus' dominance of the US luxury market through out the 90's and early 2000's... Seriously good read

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-02-28/tesla-is-a-car-not-a-revolution

 

[Kennedy]

Good Read.
Tesla is making an impact and statement but at the end it's Toyota that's being revolutionary IMO

 

[toyotafan]

Tesla is too young at this point

Until they get on the level of Toyota. it can't be compared.

 

[mojo]

See the thing that strikes me as interesting is its not as if Tesla has reworked battery chemistry. They are working with the exact same resources and technology as all the majors are. And I seriously feel that there is a reason no one has undertaken such a commitment to EV's yet besides Tesla.

You don't think Toyota could of built a Model S caliber car and had it on the market already for 5 years? I certainly do, and i certainly feel that there are plenty of brilliant people in the industry outside of Elon Musk, and theres a reason those people have refused to do what Tesla is doing.

The question is what is the reason...

 

[Kennedy]

See the thing that strikes me as interesting is its not as if Tesla has reworked battery chemistry. They are working with the exact same resources and technology as all the majors are. And I seriously feel that there is a reason no one has undertaken such a commitment to EV's yet besides Tesla.

You don't think Toyota could of built a Model S caliber car and had it on the market already for 5 years? I certainly do, and i certainly feel that there are plenty of brilliant people in the industry outside of Elon Musk, and theres a reason those people have refused to do what Tesla is doing.

The question is what is the reason...

Good point, it's funny how that works. While Toyota corp being the largest with something like $40billion ready to spend on anything, it makes you wonder whats been holding them back and how Tesla boomed.

 

[mojo]

Good point, it's funny how that works. While Toyota corp being the largest with something like $40billion ready to spend on anything, it makes you wonder whats been holding them back and how Tesla boomed.

I've got to think that they are interested in developing other avenues of technology. The problem with EV's is that they dont actually do much to combat climate change or 'green' agendas. Electricity is dirty, just do a little digging into where your local electricity comes from and it may shock you. Coal fired is prevalent, and those people who laud solar and wind dont understand that those technologies are EXPENSIVE and UNRELIABLE for a consistent output of energy, which necessitates them being subsidized by dirty cheap energy (read coal)

Toyota is currently working on hydrogen fuel cells and even their work with Atkinson cycles is a huge jump forward. We're not going to solve the energy problem by swapping to EV's en mass. One must figure that if demand shifts from petrol to electricity the prices will also shift accordingly, to cheap petrol and expensive electricity... Not to mention the excess demand we will be placing on existing electrical grids, and at that the final question becomes if there is an en mass shift to EV's where will the energy come from?

and that is the problem...

 

[toyotafan]

See the thing that strikes me as interesting is its not as if Tesla has reworked battery chemistry. They are working with the exact same resources and technology as all the majors are. And I seriously feel that there is a reason no one has undertaken such a commitment to EV's yet besides Tesla.

You don't think Toyota could of built a Model S caliber car and had it on the market already for 5 years? I certainly do, and i certainly feel that there are plenty of brilliant people in the industry outside of Elon Musk, and theres a reason those people have refused to do what Tesla is doing.

The question is what is the reason...

its all marketing

there is nothing holding back toyota from doing what tesla is doing with the cars and possibly even better them.

but tesla has provided a product that others just aren't willing the risk on.

and that is what is giving them the edge.. the fact that they don't really have much competition

they aren't ground breaking.. like you said.. the technology tesla uses isn't revolutionary.

 

[Kennedy]

It could be that at Toyota there's too many people for an idea like this to go through that it gets killed off or put off for a long time. At Tesla they don't have many barriers to take an idea through

 

[mojo]

It could be that at Toyota there's too many people for an idea like this to go through that it gets killed off or put off for a long time. At Tesla they don't have many barriers to take an idea through

Sure that could be a factor and I won't discount it at all. It just seems the prime motive for pushing EV's is cost reduction of transportation, but I wonder what happens when demand on electricity has now made it less cost efficient than petrol, what happens then a switch back to petrol?

Its a lifestyle problem, there is no replacement for fossil fuels plain and simple. If we want to get away from fossil fuels it means we need to abandon every facet of our current lifestyles. There is no 1 to 1 replacement, this demands a reorganization of everything we've come to know...

I apologize if I've rambled a bit in this thread but these are concepts I've been trying to think through in my head and its just nice to have a place to put them down and see it flushed out in words

 

[toyotafan]

ride the bike or walk. take public transit

all of that does more to reduce the cost of transportation than buying a Tesla

Teslas are dam expensive

 

[Kennedy]

hahaha that is so true, i think part of buying a an EV right now is wanting to support that movement and industry and to feel like you're doing something good for the environment. Much later we'll see some real differences in the world that these make

 

[toyotafan]

the EV pricing is still kind of high

most EV buyers I know are doing so partly for the support

I don't know if the cost savings are that real at this point.. with EVs being pretty pricey still.. And the long term reliability still sort of a big question mark

 

[Kennedy]

Sure that could be a factor and I won't discount it at all. It just seems the prime motive for pushing EV's is cost reduction of transportation, but I wonder what happens when demand on electricity has now made it less cost efficient than petrol, what happens then a switch back to petrol?

Its a lifestyle problem, there is no replacement for fossil fuels plain and simple. If we want to get away from fossil fuels it means we need to abandon every facet of our current lifestyles. There is no 1 to 1 replacement, this demands a reorganization of everything we've come to know...

I apologize if I've rambled a bit in this thread but these are concepts I've been trying to think through in my head and its just nice to have a place to put them down and see it flushed out in words

don't apologize, you made some good points.
maybe gov't should limit the amount of vehicles it allows on the roads, might be a good idea.

 

[toyotafan]

you guys hear about the banning of tesla sales in some states?

 

[Kennedy]

you guys hear about the banning of tesla sales in some states?

Heard about it, it's stupid, people who really want it will just cross over to another state to buy one and drive it back.

 

[toyotafan]