[Thai]

Let's take 9 mpg difference b/w the two. Of course, if you drive city more, then the difference will be greater...and vice versa for highway.

Assume 12,000 miles driven a year. If you drive more than 12k miles / year, then the difference in cost will be greater.

At least around me, REGULAR gas costs $3.10; PREMIUM gas costs about 35 cents more, $3.45. YMMV.

200t: 24 mpg (combined)

12,000 miles / 24mpg = 500 gallons used.

500 x $3.45 = $1,725 / 12,000 miles driven.

300h: 33 mpg (combined)

12,000 miles / 33mpg = 363.6 gallons used.

363.6 x $3.10 = $1,127.16 / 12,000 miles driven.

DIFFERENCE = $597.84 / 12,000 miles driven.


So, it all depends on the price difference b/w equally-equipped 200t vs. 300h. (BTW, $597.84 x 7 years = $4,184.88...just FYI.)

NOW, this is ONLY about gas consumption.

Hybrids do NOT require starter, transmission maintenance, belt vs. chain (not sure about 200t engine, but i think hybrids are chain-driven), and brakes maintenance & replacement. Oil changes may differ too. Again, the last part is questionable since we don't know if 200t engine requires any special oil or how long in b/w changes.

As noted previously in my other post, hybrid batteries (from Toyota) are proven beyond doubt that they can last well past 200k miles. And used (or even new) batteries are fairly cheap...around $2000 (new). Think of it this way...if i make it to 150,000 miles (worst case scenario), and all i had to spend was $2000 on maintenance outside of oil changes and tire rotations, then i did pretty good IMO!

Toyota hybrids generally have good resale value.

 

[Thai]

Just bringing this post out of a recent thread for those who want to compare costs based on fuel economy b/w the models.

 

[JoeLasVegas]

How much more is the hybrid? 8K?, would take 20 years to start saving money, by then the batteries would need replacing, why even make hybrids?

 

[Thai]

How much more is the hybrid? 8K?, would take 20 years to start saving money, by then the batteries would need replacing, why even make hybrids?

$8k?? Where did you get that number? It all depends on equipment differences b/w regular and hybrid. For example, an ES350 and ES300h difference is about $3000. RX hybrid costs a lot more than regular RX because of AWD and equipment differences. Will see where the NX falls.

As for why even make hybrids, maybe you should become Toyota chief financial guy...because surely, you know more than them!

 

[JoeLasVegas]

$8k?? Where did you get that number?

My arse, lol!

I got my copy of mototrrend today and they had the NX in there, they didn't know the price either, they estimate it around $37-40K for the 200t, what is Lexus waiting for to announce the msrp already!

 

[JoeLasVegas]

I would like a hybrid that actually gives more total HP than the turbo engine, like the 2015 XC90, their 2.0 engines are supercharged and turbocharged, base engine is 316hp, hybrid is 395hp, I wouldnt mind a 395hp hybrid NX

 

[Thai]

My arse, lol!

I got my copy of mototrrend today and they had the NX in there, they didn't know the price either, they estimate it around $37-40K for the 200t, what is Lexus waiting for to announce the msrp already!

I am confused. Not really following you. How did you come up with $8k difference bw regular and hybrid NX?? And if you don't know, then why are you so quick to jump at hybrids for being unrecoverable in profits??

 

[Thai]

I would like a hybrid that actually gives more total HP than the turbo engine, like the 2015 XC90, their 2.0 engines are supercharged and turbocharged, base engine is 316hp, hybrid is 395hp, I wouldnt mind a 395hp hybrid NX

Yet you complain about hybrids being so expensive! 395 hp NX will cost how much more? 395 hp NX fuel economy will be how bad??

You are all over the place! Volvo XC90 costs how much? Lexus does make performance hybrids...see GS450h and LS600h. But they are no bargains! And I am not sure if performance is that much better.

Hybrids are best when used to save fuel IMHO.

 

[JoeLasVegas]

Yeah bye!

 

[mojo]

Joes not entirely off however. Sure his hybrid premium may not be valid but thats no reason to toss his argument out the window. We've seen with other Hybrid models that payback is typically 7-10 years down the road (from fuel savings). Now how many owners will be keeping their vehicle 7-10 years? If you're not keeping the hybrid through to payback then you've failed as an economic actor IMO.

Granted the payback period dwindles the more mileage you lay down per year, using 20,000 miles per year (how many people will legitimately lay down this type of mileage? not many me thinks)

200t: 24 mpg (combined)

20,000 miles / 24mpg = 833 gallons used.

833 x $3.45 = $2,875 / 20,000 miles driven.

300h: 33 mpg (combined)

20,000 miles / 33mpg = 606 gallons used.

606 x $3.10 = $1,878.79 / 20,000 miles driven.

DIFFERENCE = $996.21 / 20,000 miles driven.

So now lets look at the average premium for a Lexus Hybrid:

ES: $40,430 Hybrid - $37,550 Gas= $2,880 premium
GS: $60,430 Hybrid - $47,700 Gas= $12,730 premium
LS: $120,060 Hybrid - $72,140 Gas= $47,920
RX: $47,620 Hybrid - $40,970 Gas= $6,650

Average Difference = $17,545

Granted the LS heavily skews the data so lets assume arbitrarily that the NX Hybrid premium will fall in the middle of the ES' $2,880 premium and the RX's $6,650 premium, $4765.

So with a $4,765 premium

12,000 miles per year at savings of $597.84 (over 200t) payback is 7.97 years
20,000 miles per year at savings of $996.21 (over 200t) payback is 4.78 years

For most I just don't see it making mathematical sense. Of course this is all assuming most consumers will even bother to do the calculations...

 

[Thai]

So, b/w 5-8 yrs. Not bad. However, if gas prices go up, then the difference will be less.

But, how about maintenance cost savings? How reliable is the new turbo engine?

And if someone were to change cars every 2-3 yrs and drive less than 12k miles/year, then BUYING a car is not the smartest thing either. Buying a car is NEVER a profitable thing to do.

FWIW, i put on 24k miles a year. My wife puts on about 18k.

Hybrids are sometimes the top end models...and thus, get the most toys...so, sometimes, it is worth it to get the hybrids for the toys, not just for the fuel savings.

 

[mojo]

So, b/w 5-8 yrs. Not bad. However, if gas prices go up, then the difference will be less.

But, how about maintenance cost savings? How reliable is the new turbo engine?

And if someone were to change cars every 2-3 yrs and drive less than 12k miles/year, then BUYING a car is not the smartest thing either. Buying a car is NEVER a profitable thing to do.

FWIW, i put on 24k miles a year. My wife puts on about 18k.

Hybrids are sometimes the top end models...and thus, get the most toys...so, sometimes, it is worth it to get the hybrids for the toys, not just for the fuel savings.

Fair points! I just wanted to bring some counterbalance to the discussion that is all.

At 24K miles you're well into savings territory. However we know that there are many who go for the hybrid who erroneously believe they are saving money just because Hybrid.

I believe the differences in maintenance costs will be marginal at best. You have to consider that the Hybrid is heavier so it will wear brakes and tires quicker than the Turbo.

Realistically we're grasping at straws until real world tests can begin!

 

[Thai]

I believe the differences in maintenance costs will be marginal at best. You have to consider that the Hybrid is heavier so it will wear brakes and tires quicker than the Turbo.

Realistically we're grasping at straws until real world tests can begin!

Remember, brakes are not often used in a hybrid...because it uses regenerative braking which means the pads are not used for most normal stops. So, definitely on brake pad maintenance, any hybrid will save money in that category.

As for tires, i would bet that most Turbo drivers are more aggressive than Hybrid drivers! Most hybrid tires are like normal highway tires...while Turbos may be low-profile tires which has much shorter lifespan and costs more.

 

[Kennedy]

Speaking about regen, they need to hurry up and make suspension systems regen, might as well since it gets worked out a lot.